Curse

Njaiguni Blaze · Dec 29, 2006, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackstream

There are many players, who would sign the petition, and even same many, who would not sign. Why opposition? Well, as I see - mostly no arguments - or - arguments, which do not concern the whole idea. Sometimes even - the answer or "argument" if we could call it, is simply out-of-the-universe. Just alike - no, because not, why do You need it.
And we've got a loop.

I sign definitely over and over again. Small arguments come below:

1) the look - why to force players to buy worse-looking shitwork, instead of good looking armors from previous parts, just to be able to put insignias on?
2) enable by that possibility also to tune-up previous armors (which actually, in most cases cost a lot)
3) ballance of the armors - if we keep same stats of the "best" available armors in the whole game (ex. FoW stats are just alike 15k armors in Factions, as well as Droks and so on and so on). So where did this "lack of idea" come from? The insignias can co-exist with the runes on the same parts of the armor, and with this issue, we turn the ballance to NF. And by that, we ruin the very first set of rules, which were in GW long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.

I guess, most of the players would share this one.
And for the opposition: if the only powerfull argument is "because it is not needed", then the change due to the petition, wouldn't hurt You at all. Including feelings.

Now - let the war begin.

I'll take the first shot

I'll try to make it clear again: insignias and heroes are features of Guild Wars Nightfall. They need to make it attractive for customers to buy this game, so they add new feautures. This happened in the same way like Guild Wars Factions had material storage and alliance battles exclusively. When Guild Wars Nightfall came out, they provided the material storage to all chapters, because they had to worry about Guild Wars Nightfall from then.
The insignias provided in Guild Wars Nightfall create no imbalance between the chapters. Let's summarize the insignia's that bring new stats to the armor (again):
Brawler's insignia>Armor +10 (while attacking) Who would use this? I know I wouldn't. I'd choose +energy above all (with some exceptions) and I don't find this to be that useful.
Earthbound insignia>Armor +15 (vs. Earth damage) You encounter no or little Eart damage in Prophecies and Factions.
Beastmaster's insignia>Armor +10 (while your pet is alive) I only know of 2 Beastmasters (including myself) and this would force you to pay more attention to your pet than the battle itself. That will make someone with a pet even less contributive. I don't know why people bring a pet when you don't use it, it wastes 2 skills which could be used for far better purpose. B/P? The "Beastmasters" don't get attacked anyways.
Anchorite's insignia>Armor +5 (while recharging 1 or more Skills) Armor +5 (while recharging 3 or more Skills) Armor +5 (while recharging 5 or more Skills) Don't tell me a monk has this much skills to recharge, people use fast recharging skills. The tenth of a second that you'll be on a recharge spree of more then 3 skills, will not help either.
Undertaker's insignia>Armor +5 (while Health is below 80%) Armor +5 (while Health is below 60%) Armor +5 (while Health is below 40%) Armor +5 (while Health is below 20%) If a necromancer is below 40% health he will get healed. If he is below 20% health, he'll probably die.
Artificer's insignia>Armor +3 (for each equipped Signet) No one uses that much signets, especially no mesmer.
Prodigy's insignia>Armor +5 (while recharging 1 or more Skills) Armor +5 (while recharging 3 or more Skills) Armor +5 (while recharging 5 or more Skills) Virtuoso's is much more effective.
Prismatic insignia>Armor +5 (requires 9 Air Magic) Armor +5 (requires 9 Earth Magic) Armor +5 (requires 9 Fire Magic) Armor +5 (requires 9 Water Magic) No elementalist uses all 4 elements.

Thank you for reading, have a nice day.

ArianeB · Dec 29, 2006, 09:38 PM // 21:38

The way to go here I still believe is to create an NPC "Tailor" in Nightfall that can convert any armor to use Insignias.

By making it a Nightfall only NPC, it kills the argument about needing to be a Nightfall exclusive, and it might even boost sales of Prophecies and Factions as people try to diversify their "look".

Its win-win for Anet and players.

Bryant Again · Dec 29, 2006, 09:54 PM // 21:54

/signed *only* under the condition that the tailor/etc would be Nightfall exclusive.

Hell Marauder · Dec 29, 2006, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Njaiguni Blaze

I'll take the first shot

I'll try to make it clear again: insignias and heroes are features of Guild Wars Nightfall. They need to make it attractive for customers to buy this game, so they add new feautures. This happened in the same way like Guild Wars Factions had material storage and alliance battles exclusively. When Guild Wars Nightfall came out, they provided the material storage to all chapters, because they had to worry about Guild Wars Nightfall from then.
The insignias provided in Guild Wars Nightfall create no imbalance between the chapters. Let's summarize the insignia's that bring new stats to the armor (again):
Anchorite's insignia>Armor +5 (while recharging 1 or more Skills) Armor +5 (while recharging 3 or more Skills) Armor +5 (while recharging 5 or more Skills) Don't tell me a monk has this much skills to recharge, people use fast recharging skills. The tenth of a second that you'll be on a recharge spree of more then 3 skills, will not help either.
...
Prodigy's insignia>Armor +5 (while recharging 1 or more Skills) Armor +5 (while recharging 3 or more Skills) Armor +5 (while recharging 5 or more Skills) Virtuoso's is much more effective.
Prismatic insignia>Armor +5 (requires 9 Air Magic) Armor +5 (requires 9 Earth Magic) Armor +5 (requires 9 Fire Magic) Armor +5 (requires 9 Water Magic) No elementalist uses all 4 elements.

First, insignia's stats shouldn't be considered unique features, they should be available universally like weapons stats. Would you consider it balanced if NF has 15^50 and other chapters weapons don't??

Those insignias you don't like, may be perfectly good insignias to others. Different ppl have different taste. You obviously prefer energy, but for me, I prefer more armors for casters. So I prefer Prodigy's insignia's armor+5 while x skills recharging over Prophecy/Factions' armor+15 while casting (most mesmer skills have long recharge time, and since mesmer's primary attribute is fast casting, +armor while casting is just plain silly), and I also prefer Prismatic insignia (armor+5 vs all) to Prophecy/Factions' armor+10 vs elemental. Not to mention some assassins probably prefer armor+10 while enchanted over that silly armor+15 while attacking. Sure, if ranger and monk are all we play, there's nothing to complain, but other professions do have better choices out there.

Let's not forget, instead of being allowed to put on insignia, all classes' old Prophecy/Factions headgears are automatically given +1 energy. Now compare that meager +1 energy to, say, necromancer's bloodstained insignia (corpse exploit skill half casting time 25% chance) or warrior's armor+10 vs elemental, you can see a clear difference.

Just check how much necro's new bloodstained insignia cost (it was 9k last time I checked) would give you an idea how popular some new insignia is.

Again, if new NF insignias are craps, none of us would complain in this thread. The fact is, many new insignias appear for a reason: they're improvements over the old ones, or else Anet wouldn't add them in the game. So again, everyone has different taste for armor's insignia, don't impose yours onto others, give everyone an option to choose.

darted · Dec 30, 2006, 01:14 AM // 01:14

/agree

Especially the collector armor. I use that for my Ele from Prophecies. I like the look of it and it does not have the mods of the fire/water/earth/air armor. In fact IIRC is vanilla on mods,

I understand the reasoning for not allowing insignias on the various types available as they would then have the ability to double up on mods.

Maybe just convert them to having mods? Or maybe just the collector obtained ones

atkafighter · Dec 30, 2006, 03:58 AM // 03:58

I didn't read all 8 pages, but this is something I thought would have happened already. I really like the Prophecies armors, and I was surprised to find that when I added NF that insignias wouldn't attach to the older armors. Maybe if they put an NPC in Kamadan, and the Command Post that can detach old insignias (and destroy them so you don't have people trying to get insignias for lower prices) so you can apply a new one. This way people with old FOW can also change their insignias. Kill two birds with one stone.
I don't think this addition would be very difficult, and it would be pretty clever IMHO.

Unheard Echo · Dec 30, 2006, 04:10 AM // 04:10

/signed
Put an NPC in Elona that will do this and be done with it, this means you still need to get NF, seems pretty straightforward to me. Also, you can already craft Fissure armor that is inscribable, no sense in not retrofitting old Fissure to behave the same as the current version.

Njaiguni Blaze · Dec 30, 2006, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Marauder

So I prefer Prodigy's insignia's armor+5 while x skills recharging over Prophecy/Factions' armor+15 while casting (most mesmer skills have long recharge time, and since mesmer's primary attribute is fast casting, +armor while casting is just plain silly), and I also prefer Prismatic insignia (armor+5 vs all) to Prophecy/Factions' armor+10 vs elemental. Not to mention some assassins probably prefer armor+10 while enchanted over that silly armor+15 while attacking. Sure, if ranger and monk are all we play, there's nothing to complain, but other professions do have better choices out there.

Let's not forget, instead of being allowed to put on insignia, all classes' old Prophecy/Factions headgears are automatically given +1 energy. Now compare that meager +1 energy to, say, necromancer's bloodstained insignia (corpse exploit skill half casting time 25% chance) or warrior's armor+10 vs elemental, you can see a clear difference.

Just check how much necro's new bloodstained insignia cost (it was 9k last time I checked) would give you an idea how popular some new insignia is.

First of all, Bloodstained is nothing new.
Good mesmers cast all the time. Fast Casting will not bring spells down to instant casting. My main character is a mesmer, trust me. If you want to IW (lawl) take Rogue's armor.
Assassins go in, attack, kill get out. So +15 while attacking makes much more sense.
+10 armor against all elements and another +10 for a specific element is worse than +5 armor?

And what's with the "warriors want +10 armor against elemental damage"? Hello? Dreadnought's armor? Platemail armor?

cryptology · Dec 30, 2006, 12:34 PM // 12:34

/signed

My thoughts:

It was mentioned that one of ANet's greatest influences is selling copies of the game. As an owner of Nightfall only, I'm dissatisfied with the appearance of armors in comparison with the armors of Prophecies and Factions. I would be compelled to purchase either Prophecies or Factions if it means I could have nice looking armor AND the ability to add insignias to those armors. From the standpoint of someone who owns only Prophecies or Factions, would it not be equally appealing to purchase Nightfall if it meant you could change your current armor's abilities? If I owned only Prophecies, for example, I would want to be able to add insignias to my armors... not to be able to purchase new armors just to get the insignias. Making this option only available to Nightfall owners would not affect ANet's ability to sell copies of Nightfall in a negative way, and could possibly increase sales in the older chapters as well.

The idea that a "want" for something as opposed to a "need" does not constitute change is flawed. Here is an example of what I mean. If GuildWars had only the necessities, there would be one skin for every weapon and piece of armor. There would be one option for hair color and style, one option for face, and all characters would be the same size. Would you feel compelled to purchase GuildWars over some other MMO, possibly a free one, if this were the case? The fact is, what players "want" is what influences the potential buyer toward one game or another. A player wants a certain type of gameplay, so they buy the game that satisfies that want. The "need" is expected to be satisfied. This is why a petition is so powerful in making change.

In conclusion, keep things in the other chapters as they are, but allow players who own Nightfall to modify their armors for Prophecies or Factions. As mentioned, I believe the most efficient way to do this would be to allow an NPC in Elona or elsewhere in the Nightfall campaign to change the armors into insignia bearing armors.

Please, Njaiguni Blaze, whatever point you're trying to prove does not belong in this thread. This is a petition... which means it is meant for those who support the idea to show their support, not for people who think it will happen anyway or for people who do not support it to demean the idea. Your going off-topic is a very disrespectful act.

sn0w1337 · Dec 30, 2006, 12:43 PM // 12:43

/signed.........

jrk247 · Dec 30, 2006, 01:37 PM // 13:37

/signed

Because if you had existing armor (from a different GW that you had already bought) you should be able to upgrade that armor in Nightfall seeings how you went out and bought the new GW game.

Hell Marauder · Dec 30, 2006, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Njaiguni Blaze

First of all, Bloodstained is nothing new.
Good mesmers cast all the time. Fast Casting will not bring spells down to instant casting. My main character is a mesmer, trust me. If you want to IW (lawl) take Rogue's armor.
Assassins go in, attack, kill get out. So +15 while attacking makes much more sense.
+10 armor against all elements and another +10 for a specific element is worse than +5 armor?

And what's with the "warriors want +10 armor against elemental damage"? Hello? Dreadnought's armor? Platemail armor?

I have 9 toons covering all professions except Rit, mesmer being my second and I've played it for both pve and pvp since Prophecy's release so I know. Mesmer's armor+5 x X while X skills are recharging is just better than armor+15 while activating skill, at least for me. A dom interrupting mesmer can have multiple skills recharging and hardly spends any time casting. Just look up casting time and recharge time in Domination skill list for yourself, please.

Assassin's +15 armor while attacking makes sense?? Lol, are you encouraging assassins tanking, or do you prefer assassins going in and out with enchantments like AoD?? +15 armor while attacking is also a glorified version of brawler's insignia, and if a warrior doesn't want it, as you said so yourself about brawler's insignia, why give it to an assassin?? So some enchant-heavy assassin builds may benefit from +armor while enchanted, give them that choice please. Btw, a few elementalist warders DO use more than two elemental attributes. So prismatic insignia is a useful one.

Platemail/dreadnought armor? Have you seen that strength+1 fixed on it?? Smart warriors would pick weaponmastery+1 over strength+1 anytime. Many threads talk about strength being a weak primary attribute so I don't have to go into that.

Like inscription, insignia system itself may be chapter-specific, but stats themselves should be available universally, for sake of fairness and balance. Again, I don't want to turn this into a silly argument about which insignia is better, just don't impose your belief onto someone else and give everybody freedom to choose. More choices to others won't hurt you as a player, either.

Diddy bow · Dec 30, 2006, 08:27 PM // 20:27

/signed
because items in nf should be equal to tyrian/canthan stuff nothing to do with making ppl buy nf....
And anet (apperently) has a 'casual gamer' stance so why make people farm and buy a new set of armor every new game just because it makes their old armor look like a joke?
i love insignias but id love to make my 15K kurz better too
Cant w8 for my 1000 armor level C4 armor

Metanoia · Dec 30, 2006, 11:44 PM // 23:44

/signed

Although, I'm doubting it'll happen thanks to that slap-in-the-face +1e to Tyrian/Canthan helmets update...

@Njaiguni Blaze, trivial as it may appear, NF armours do have the distinct advantage of insignia bonuses in their helmets. Now, as for the rest, it's common sense that variety equates to an advantage.

Blackstream · Dec 31, 2006, 10:48 AM // 10:48

Definitely this was my point.
Instead of the subject of the petition, which is to add a simple possibility of placing insignias into ALL armors, confusion leads to subject change alike "You don't need it" or "What You can get instead" and so on.

It is about ballance. About fair-play. About possibilities, so frankly limited by ANET way. If anyone says, that I don't need insignias, because Droks armor has already their stats, then - I say bullshit. Why to force me to have stats of one isignia, instead of possibility for me to choose it.

It is about insignias. Not to proove, that a player DOES NOT need it, because he/she can get something instead.

So please respond to the topic, as for the stats comparison, there may be another thread. That concerns also "first strikers" under Frenzy.

The Muffen Man · Dec 31, 2006, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArianeB

The way to go here I still believe is to create an NPC "Tailor" in Nightfall that can convert any armor to use Insignias.

By making it a Nightfall only NPC, it kills the argument about needing to be a Nightfall exclusive, and it might even boost sales of Prophecies and Factions as people try to diversify their "look".

Its win-win for Anet and players.

I think this is a brilliant idea!
/signed

Proteus Summer · Dec 31, 2006, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArianeB

The way to go here I still believe is to create an NPC "Tailor" in Nightfall that can convert any armor to use Insignias.

By making it a Nightfall only NPC, it kills the argument about needing to be a Nightfall exclusive, and it might even boost sales of Prophecies and Factions as people try to diversify their "look".

Its win-win for Anet and players.

/signed
Must have Nightfall in order to make previous armors insignia-able sounds more than fair.

Cathode_Reborn · Dec 31, 2006, 08:27 PM // 20:27

I, like many others, would love this feature alot. Not everyone has the gold to buy multiple sets of their favorite 15k armor just to get different stats. That's just ridiculous.......having more than 1 set of the same 15k armor just cause it lacks the insignia system that Nightfall has. Even then, Factions doesn't even have some of the bonuses that Nightfall does. Go back another chapter: Prophecies. Now you're getting the worst of options. You gotta look horribly bad if you plan on wearing different armor bonuses. So in the end, if you wanna use those insignias with the special bonuses that weren't even made for previous chapters, you're forced to wear Nightfall armor. Sorry but, I'll pass.

For those so worried about sales, Anet can do what a few suggested: make an npc in Elona that makes armors from previous chapters insignia-compatible. Simple. For those against the whole idea, not a single one of you has posted anything worth reading or thinking about. Don't post just to say "/notsign". If you dislike the idea that much, give us a good reason why rather than just typing a sentence or two then running off.

/signed

rohara · Dec 31, 2006, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArianeB

The way to go here I still believe is to create an NPC "Tailor" in Nightfall that can convert any armor to use Insignias.

By making it a Nightfall only NPC, it kills the argument about needing to be a Nightfall exclusive, and it might even boost sales of Prophecies and Factions as people try to diversify their "look".

Its win-win for Anet and players.

/signed

couldn't have said it better myself

FelixCarter · Jan 01, 2007, 12:48 AM // 00:48

/Signed

I like my Ascetic's Water Design (15k), but it would be so cool if I could change it to do what I want (granted, I'll have to buy a new one).